July 10, 2008

Birth Control thoughts

There have been lots of great comments. Thanks everyone. We all seem to have had different experiences in this area. I talked with my husband about it last night. He feels like I do- we wish we could let go of control. But, the main thing for him is my health and making sure we can tend to Leiah. Sarah has already passed her up in speech and cognitive skills. Leiah is like a two year old in many ways- that's three YEARS behind in development.

He's(dh) just not convinced that the Bible says we should leave it to God. I personally think that some are called to it and some aren't. I feel sad for the way things have gone- I've never really birthed any of my children I was just gutted like a fish. All my birth experiences are bad because there's nothing positive about cesarean. Well, you see your baby fast. I can't think of any reason why a c-section is better than vaginal birth in non-emergency situations. I've never been in labor, so I can't compare pain, but major surgery is darn painful. It makes me want to hurl just thinking about it. I mean really, you lay there knowing you are cut wide open, yet you can't feel it. You can barely feel yourself breathe, which made me panic the first time, and afterwards you can hear the staple gun stapling yourself back together. It's freaky and I get nervous talking about it. Plus my incision sites reopened with the second and third birth. Nice.

It seems that most people with the quiverful conviction have not had cesarean births and/or do not have special children. Or the special child was born after several 'normal' children and wasn't the oldest. Makes a big difference. I was on the quiverful digest for years, still am, just haven't gotten any in a long time actually. I'm a wannabe in that area :) I have to be content with what I have and be thankful that I have strong healthy children. It could sure be a lot worse- I get reminded of that every time I go to the therapy place.

Anyways, we still aren't sure if dh will go for the vasectomy or if we will just continue with our current method, but even more carefully LOL. Don't wanna go through another week like last week. ( our current method uses a common item you find in the drugstore or grocery store- they come in 12 packs, ha,ha, for anyone who hasn't figured out what I'm talking about yet)

Well, gotta go.


Ohiomom9977 said...

Having had a c-section I totally agree - they really suck and the recovery is horrible!!! Not sure why some think it's easier. I've done it both ways and would pick a vaginal birth anytime if given the choice (not that I didn't have a choice - but my daughter's life was at stake). My prayers are with you, it's a tough decision to make.

Anonymous said...

Your so right- I too feel that God has called some also for a quiver full because every family dynamic and family is so different with so many things to consider due to God's own will for that family.

It would be so easy to just follow one way but it's just not the way God works in each of our lives as families. I can say that for many things. I truly feel that thats such a personal decssion and i am careful to guard my heart in reading books that are absolute on the issue. I have put undo guilt upon myself over things being naive christian over things that aren't sin.

I have had 4 c-sections and thank God that I did. Im not sure if me or my child/children would be here today for it not have been that way. It wasn't our plan but it was God's. It was painful and hard to adjust when your in a lot of pain and recovering but so worth it. I know what you mean about even talking about it.

Having had 4 has taken a toll on my body- I think with each one and the expectation of repeat major surgery affects the body as one needs to recover from it all. For us we have felt it to be God's will to not have anymore.

The argument of controling the number of kids doesn't hold for us because I think there is also control when you decide for a quiver full because if both husband and wife are healthy are more then likely expecting and will bare a child/children. Some may not for awhile which can happen in your 30's but not always.

I think it is clear that it is God's intention for us to populate and inhabbit the earth no question and the desire of every christian to seek to have arrows for christ. I am in absolute agreement with that biblical truth but to what number I cannot judge or give. That is between God and that chirstian brother and sister to decide and for me to not judge the heart motive behind that descission.

If you look clearere at the many Godly families and men God used you won't necessarily see as the pattern 8-10 or even 15 kids. You'll see 1 or 2 or a handful and God called them a quiver full. So that helps us also to see How God defines quiver full. Not everyone will will feel that way but I repsect both sides and again feel it to be a matter of God's will for that family.

Thanks for a great discussion on all this! =)

*MichiganMomma* said...

Here's what I think - and remember, it's only MY opinion. In the end, you and your dh have to honestly take this to the Lord and He will let you know what to do.

You know my story: 4 children, 4 c/s, my eldest is..um..a bit special. He's 6, almost 7, but he's not really *like* other 7yob. I haven't had him tested or labeled or anything - I just don't think he needs that.

My two middle girls are...difficult. Whew....girls are CERTAINLY more difficult than boys! And my youngest is a boy, about 17 months old, quite the little climber.

I think if you are on the fence, without a real conviction in this area, it will be EASY to find people here that will support a decision to stop having children. I'm not saying you shouldn't stop. I'm not. I'm just saying, in our culture, in America today, if a couple is wavering on what to do - it will be EASY to find support to stop pregnancy. EASY!

Again, that doesn't mean I think you should keep on having babies willy-nilly. It's a tough decision. Someday, I'll probably have to make a tough decision due to the c-sections (although my OB said things look really good in there thus far).

The other thing is this: I'm really sorry you've had such bad c/s experiences. I just don't view mine like that. I got my feathers all in a fluff when I read you saying you felt like a "gutted fish". I am in NO WAY a gutted fish! But I knew you weren't attacking me (duh, your blog) and obviously this was a hard topic for you.

Don't let the all-natural-all-the-time crowd make you feel bad. Yes, it probably would have been better for us both to have had all natural births. But we didn't. It's in the past. It happened and now we have to deal with it and move forward with our decisions based on that reality.

I've watched you work on your health and you are amazing! You are doing a great job with your girls! But only you, your dh and the Lord know if more children are in store for you. Perhaps you need a break or perhaps you need to give the reigns back to God ~ I don't know.

I do know you believe children are a blessing and all life is precious. I would just be careful where you get your advice from (including me). YOU know how God feels about this, and you know what is going on in your head, in your body, in your marriage and in your family. God will not leave you to flouder about. Just remember He loves you and He is good!

Prayers, my sister~

Rev. Spike said...

I think in topics like these that the phrase "God gave you a brain" is a good one. Now, I did not read anyones replies I just wanted to pipe in and encourage you. Sometimes the way that God is in control of your family size is by giving you that closed door feeling. Did you know that a full quiver in that time period was 5, that's all the arrows you could fit in a quiver. ;) And besides...Why on earth would you base your ENTIRE life on ONE proverb? ONE proverb? A proverb that says a person with a full quiver is blessed. NOT though shalt NEVER Use birth control.. Sounds like the Pharisees to me.

Off my soapbox.. You are fine dont let anyone shame you. :)

Thirdtimemomma said...

Shoot, Rev Spike was me.. Hubby was logged in. :)

mama said...

"your 12 pack current method" that was funny:):)
I understand completely!!!!!!! No 2 situations are alike!

Lori... said...

I've had one DNC, 2 C-Sections, and one surgery to restore the plumbing I had the doctors cut. I didn't like the staple thing - the second time around I insisted on double stitches and I'm telling you - that is SO MUCH BETTER! None of my C-Sections have been as bad as what you are speaking of! Not saying they weren't bad for you, but rather encouraging you to look into another doc, maybe?!?! After all the opening up they did with me I found a midwife that says VBAC is fine next time around.

My view on quiverfull is this...
God tells us that children are a heritage from Him - a gift from Him - why would we tell Him no to a gift that He is wanting to give us? If it were Him trying to give us $1000 repeatedly, I'm sure any one of us would surrender our bank account numbers, but when it comes to something like children that the world doesn't see the same way as the Bible tells us to look at it - then it's very difficult to stand in a position against [nearly] everyone and our own flesh, whether God has told us to do it or not.

But this is a road you and your hubby must walk, not me or your parents - regardless of how supportive they are or your best friend is, or your greatest blogging buddy isn't - this has to be a decision that you know that you know God has told you to do and it lines up with His word.

Your hubs is right...there is nothing in the Word that says "we should leave our family planning to Him" specifically, but likewise, I don't believe I've ever read in the word of God that we should get a vasectomy or tubal ligation or birth control or anything else; thus taking control of the situation ourselves. Please don't misconstrue this comment as confrontational, but I was once your age, having a tubal because and I quote "this baby factory is closed" and ten years later and much growth in my faith - I realize it was the single worst decision that was ever made. The Bible tells me in Titus to exhort younger women and that is what I'm trying to do, that's all!

Jer. 29:11 "For I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord..."

Sarah said...

Jessica, I think that you need to do what is right for your family. I read a lot of the same blogs that you do, and for a while, I thought that I was doing the wrong thing by preventing pregnancy. After speaking with my husband about my heavy heart, we agreed that there was no possible way that we could support a child at this time. My husband is in school full time and we are living off my income. We choose not to use birth control pills because I have heard that they can allow eggs to be fertilized, but not allow them to attach to the wall of the uterus. As far as I am concerned, a fertilized egg is a baby. I don't know if that is the whole story, but we just prefer not to take a chance. We are currently using the same method as you and your husband. We are very careful. I think that if God wanted to bless me with a baby at this point in my life, he would find a way to do it!:) I know this is a long comment, but I just wanted you to know that you are not alone, and that you are free to make the right choices according to your situation. Hugs and prayers!

Kelly said...

Hi Jessica. This is my first comment here, but I have been reading your blog for most of this year. I just wanted to tell you to keep your chin up and don't worry. I'm expecting my third baby in Feb. '09, but it's our sixth child.We adopted our two nieces and nephew when my sister passed away. Our second oldest has epilepsy, and other major health problems including having a stroke this year. She is age 6 but also is behind by a few years in her emotional development. It's really hard at times, but joyous as well. It can be done, so don't rule it out if that's what your heart desires. Blessings, Kelly

Anonymous said...

I agree with rev. Spike!

Children are indeed a heritage from the Lord and a special gift! But I do not feel in my heart that im not excepting that gift in choosing not to have anymore due to my multiple c-sections and scaring the doctors said (After my 3rd but we made it fine with #4 though we feel it wise to not tempt God and endager my life).

God always looks at the heart motive- and also isn't a God of confusion or contradiction. We cannot base such descissions on one verse or 2 of the bible but take His word as a whole and apply it to where he has placed us in our life (repeat c-sections, some internally heal fine others not so and take greater risk in endagering there life). I have 4 doctors I see- one very medical and to the point another who is jewish clearly for many births and repeat C-sections and another a woman very catiouse. This has actually been helpful for me. At every c-section i have asked for to know the report of what was written of how things looks or ask my doc and have a seriouse talk with them about it. This has helped us seek God's will and has made it clear as to His will for our family.

We aren't persuaded by what the world and society favors- we know very well that children sadly seem a burden in this world- how very sad indeed! We love the Lord and seek to be the light in this darkened world and do not let the world dictate or society preassure us in such a descission. It was made wisely considering many,many factors but ultimately my health and preserving my life was the deciding factor. The lining to my uterus wall is so translucent that my doctor even saw right through uterus and saw baby. This might have been for my 3rd pregnancy and 4th aswell.

I explain this because I want many chirstians out there to understand that when having multiple c-sections (allmy babies were breech and we found out my pelvis was to narrow anyway to deliver my 8 pound babies)you are talking about major surgery and not everyone heal the same way inside. It's important to ask your doc upon the c-section how things look and get a good number of opinions on that if you can. With major surgery come many risks. I feel it to be a blessing to know the real risks each time- because there are real risks (thats the reality with any surgery) involved. It's so routine to have c-sections that people sometimes forget some of those factors mentioned above. We feel it quite important therefore to find good doctors who do not give you there opinion but give you the facts. there out there because i have experienced them and thank God for them!

I mentioned that one to is making and taking control of not ussing birth control. What I meant by that is just as one may say well your not letting God give you as many kids as he sees fit' one can also argue that your choosing many kids and have control by making that descission also. we all know that 2 perfectly healthy husband and wife will get pregnant if there not doing anything to prevent pregnancy. That family is choosing and deciding for many kids. So the choosing part of it all can't be worng then we must consider numbers. No where in the bible do we see a command for number of children we must all have. please show me if we do- chapter and verse please =).

What we do see is God's favor and blessing for us all to seek and desire to multiply from begining of creation and that they are indeed a blessing and a heritage, special gifts from him. 1 child is as special as 10 so somewhere in this argument people are putting a number and kinda estimating that a certain number of gifts are better then even just 1. One can also intern ask well how about that couple with just one? Must God not want to give that christian brother or sister many more gifts?

God looks at the heart and in comes down to that. If one is making such a decsion not based on selfishness and in faith then before God who am i to judge.

Thanks for listening!

Michele said...

I have been a lurker here but felt the need to chime in.
No where in the Bible does God say, "Let me decide how many children you have." But it does say thousands of times, 'Trust me COMPLETELY.' In Luke 9:23 we agreed to take up the cross with Jesus and follow HIM. Not the world, not our pocket books, not our free will but HIM. We are even told to give up our bodies to glorify Him in 1 Corinthians 6:19-20.
I challenge the idea that "God gave us a brain." When I hear this, I want to have some scriptural backing for us to think better than Him. Where in the scripture does it say, 'If you think you know better than me, then thats ok.' Where? You won't find it. Where does it say, 'I gave you a brain, think for yourself'? It doesn't. It repeatedly says, TRUST ME. Here is some scripture to actually contradict that thinking: Isaiah 55:8-9 , Proverbs 14:12 ,Proverbs 3:5, Isaiah 29:14 and 1 Corinthians 1:20, 25, 27, 31.
In the end the real only solid advice I have you is look to the Scriptures. If you doubt any teaching or advice, look to the scriptures to see what God has to say.
I hope this message is received in love in which it was written in. If you don't want to publish it, that is ok. I just wanted to leave you with some scripture on the subject.
God Bless,

Anonymous said...

I agree with Michelle to trust Him completely. i also agree that we must take into account the whole council of His word regarding all aspects of our lives. I beleive that god has given man wisdom to help us decide His will. To what extent must be prayfully sought and as he is not a God of confusion he will guide us his children to His will.

His will may not be the same for all of His children. As we know some moms have to have c-sections, others cannot have children. I praise God that he never gave us a number as law or command. He does give us his desire and His blessing upon having children calling us blessed to have them and that they are a heritage and gift from him. To be blessed with them 1,2 3 or more we as parents are blessed.

Is the couple who cannot have any less blessed no. I have a sister and her and her husband would love a baby but they are having trouble conceiving. They do not have the money to adopt. But God's will for them now is just perfect- he has them just where he wants them to be and wants them to be content and satisfied in Him.

Let us all remeber that, walking by faith, praying and seeking Him always for HIS will concerning all aspects of our walk before Him in this world. We can never go wrong there.

Anonymous said...

You are so right about the special children! We didn't know the issues our 1st had till she was 2 and after our second was born. I have what's known as an "inadequate luteal phase". Without progesterone suppositories inserted AFTER I ovulate, the egg will not be able to implant and I would miscarry. I had 2 miscarriages before we found this out with our 1st. We wanted to have a second, but then enough was enough. All of that "planning" was hard!! I also needed fertility drugs to help the process along. DH had the vasectomy. Do we regret it? Sometimes, but, we also know our family is perfect just the way it is.

Anonymous said...

Just wanted to add that after three children, my husband had a vasectomy. That was 4 years ago. We realized it was a hasty decision and he had a reversal a year ago. I'm still not pregnant, and it may not be God's will, but, we both wonder if he should have never had the first surgery to start with. Just wanted to share that with you, because I too would like to hold a little one - one more time. Blessings!! D

Nancy said...

This is a hard decission at times and other times you feel more sure. I am 30 yaers old. We have had 6 children. 2 full term babies passed away (heart failure) a few days after birth. our second son has a heart condition, but is still with us and our one daughter was born with clubbed feet, and spent a few months as a baby in a cast from hip to toe. So far we are still leaving it in God`s hands , but I often feel unsure of what really is God`s will, but as long as we feel unsure, we won`t be doing anything as far as birth control.